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	<title>Comments on: The Absurdity Of America&#8217;s Devotion To Israel</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.socialmatter.net/2015/08/09/the-absurdity-of-americas-devotion-to-israel/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.socialmatter.net/2015/08/09/the-absurdity-of-americas-devotion-to-israel/</link>
	<description>Not Your Grandfather&#039;s Conservatism</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2015 20:20:23 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Faustos I Through VI</title>
		<link>http://www.socialmatter.net/2015/08/09/the-absurdity-of-americas-devotion-to-israel/#comment-17019</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Faustos I Through VI]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2015 14:35:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.socialmatter.net/?p=2417#comment-17019</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Let&#039;s pretend there&#039;s a large Afrikaaner diaspora in the US circa 1980, which includes many prominent politicians, businessmen, and intellectuals. As result, US foreign policy heavily backs the Apartheid regime, even to the point of sending troops to places like Angola, at great cost to the American taxpayer, the world&#039;s opinion of the US, and US interests elsewhere. How many white nationalists/paleocons/etc complain? Should they?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s pretend there&#8217;s a large Afrikaaner diaspora in the US circa 1980, which includes many prominent politicians, businessmen, and intellectuals. As result, US foreign policy heavily backs the Apartheid regime, even to the point of sending troops to places like Angola, at great cost to the American taxpayer, the world&#8217;s opinion of the US, and US interests elsewhere. How many white nationalists/paleocons/etc complain? Should they?</p>
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		<title>By: Faustos I Through VI</title>
		<link>http://www.socialmatter.net/2015/08/09/the-absurdity-of-americas-devotion-to-israel/#comment-17017</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Faustos I Through VI]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2015 14:29:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.socialmatter.net/?p=2417#comment-17017</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Moldbug was in favor of complete US neutrality in the Israel-Palestine dispute seeing as there is no clear American interest in backing either side, in line with classical international relations, though it was always clear he would wouldn&#039;t mind if Israel went full Baruch Goldstein on the Arabs. I don&#039;t see how anyone on the alt-right could dispute the claim the Jews in the US contribute to the Cathedral disproportionately, but I don&#039;t think anyone really does. It really comes down to whether the cause of America&#039;s leftward drift was Yankees and Yankified Jews (Moldbug) or just Jews and their &quot;group evolutionary strategy&quot; (MacDonald).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Moldbug was in favor of complete US neutrality in the Israel-Palestine dispute seeing as there is no clear American interest in backing either side, in line with classical international relations, though it was always clear he would wouldn&#8217;t mind if Israel went full Baruch Goldstein on the Arabs. I don&#8217;t see how anyone on the alt-right could dispute the claim the Jews in the US contribute to the Cathedral disproportionately, but I don&#8217;t think anyone really does. It really comes down to whether the cause of America&#8217;s leftward drift was Yankees and Yankified Jews (Moldbug) or just Jews and their &#8220;group evolutionary strategy&#8221; (MacDonald).</p>
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		<title>By: Faustos I Through VI</title>
		<link>http://www.socialmatter.net/2015/08/09/the-absurdity-of-americas-devotion-to-israel/#comment-17015</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Faustos I Through VI]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2015 14:17:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.socialmatter.net/?p=2417#comment-17015</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Isn&#039;t the whole point of Social Matter to have articles like Landry&#039;s and comments like Y.llan&#039;s? Keep the one sentence replies accusing someone of being a shill to TRS//pol/etc, please(not that there&#039;s anything wrong with those sites).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t the whole point of Social Matter to have articles like Landry&#8217;s and comments like Y.llan&#8217;s? Keep the one sentence replies accusing someone of being a shill to TRS//pol/etc, please(not that there&#8217;s anything wrong with those sites).</p>
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		<title>By: Hadley Bennett</title>
		<link>http://www.socialmatter.net/2015/08/09/the-absurdity-of-americas-devotion-to-israel/#comment-16979</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hadley Bennett]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2015 00:05:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.socialmatter.net/?p=2417#comment-16979</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[We discuss it in public infrequently because it brings out the crazies.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We discuss it in public infrequently because it brings out the crazies.</p>
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		<title>By: Ezra Pound's Ghost</title>
		<link>http://www.socialmatter.net/2015/08/09/the-absurdity-of-americas-devotion-to-israel/#comment-16964</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ezra Pound's Ghost]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2015 19:47:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.socialmatter.net/?p=2417#comment-16964</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wait a minute: is NRx just now discovering the Israel/Jewish problem?  I&#039;m more from New Right circles, but I thought NRx was already way savvy about this issue and the threat it poses.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wait a minute: is NRx just now discovering the Israel/Jewish problem?  I&#8217;m more from New Right circles, but I thought NRx was already way savvy about this issue and the threat it poses.</p>
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		<title>By: john hoyle</title>
		<link>http://www.socialmatter.net/2015/08/09/the-absurdity-of-americas-devotion-to-israel/#comment-16893</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[john hoyle]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2015 19:25:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.socialmatter.net/?p=2417#comment-16893</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yeah, support Israel because they might start exporting natural gas.  That&#039;s a new one.

The Oxygen Heat Fuel of the Middle Eastern Fire are Israelis, American Money and Consanguinity.  Supporting the Israelis only fans the flames.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, support Israel because they might start exporting natural gas.  That&#8217;s a new one.</p>
<p>The Oxygen Heat Fuel of the Middle Eastern Fire are Israelis, American Money and Consanguinity.  Supporting the Israelis only fans the flames.</p>
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		<title>By: TK</title>
		<link>http://www.socialmatter.net/2015/08/09/the-absurdity-of-americas-devotion-to-israel/#comment-16845</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TK]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2015 20:50:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.socialmatter.net/?p=2417#comment-16845</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree that the time for reducing Israeli aid is nigh, but I wonder how different the Near/Middle East would look had the support not occurred. Could the Soviets have gained hegemony over the region? If so, would &quot;democratic&quot; Pan-Islamist movements been nipped in the bud, allowing for more stable governments after the USSR&#039;s inevitable collapse? Or would they use such power to close key trade routes and provoke large-scale war with the West? Maybe Israel would become a Soviet satellite to the same extent it became a NATO one? The possibilities are endless...some better, but most worse!

Stepping back into today&#039;s reality, none of Israel&#039;s enemies can project power on the same level as the Reds in their heyday. They are far too fractured and incompetent, even Iran. Their rhetoric outstrips their capabilities.  Israel should be able to defend itself better without US aid, because it comes with conditions attached. Weapons produced domestically or purchased at fair market value shouldn&#039;t come with the same idealistic instruction manual.

Ending psychological/humanitarian aid to Palestine is of equal importance. It makes absolutely no sense to support both sides of a conflict. Even though sending food and medical supplies to Palestine may seem merciful, opportunity cost proves the converse. Labor and capital the Palestinians don&#039;t have to expend for food/infrastructure/medical supplies can be used for making suicide vests and Mujahid Mickey Mouse counterfeits. Benevolent western progressives have a knack for prolonging conflict.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that the time for reducing Israeli aid is nigh, but I wonder how different the Near/Middle East would look had the support not occurred. Could the Soviets have gained hegemony over the region? If so, would &#8220;democratic&#8221; Pan-Islamist movements been nipped in the bud, allowing for more stable governments after the USSR&#8217;s inevitable collapse? Or would they use such power to close key trade routes and provoke large-scale war with the West? Maybe Israel would become a Soviet satellite to the same extent it became a NATO one? The possibilities are endless&#8230;some better, but most worse!</p>
<p>Stepping back into today&#8217;s reality, none of Israel&#8217;s enemies can project power on the same level as the Reds in their heyday. They are far too fractured and incompetent, even Iran. Their rhetoric outstrips their capabilities.  Israel should be able to defend itself better without US aid, because it comes with conditions attached. Weapons produced domestically or purchased at fair market value shouldn&#8217;t come with the same idealistic instruction manual.</p>
<p>Ending psychological/humanitarian aid to Palestine is of equal importance. It makes absolutely no sense to support both sides of a conflict. Even though sending food and medical supplies to Palestine may seem merciful, opportunity cost proves the converse. Labor and capital the Palestinians don&#8217;t have to expend for food/infrastructure/medical supplies can be used for making suicide vests and Mujahid Mickey Mouse counterfeits. Benevolent western progressives have a knack for prolonging conflict.</p>
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		<title>By: vxxc2014</title>
		<link>http://www.socialmatter.net/2015/08/09/the-absurdity-of-americas-devotion-to-israel/#comment-16844</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[vxxc2014]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2015 20:25:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.socialmatter.net/?p=2417#comment-16844</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mr. Landry,

&quot;Instead, America spent the post-WWII decades enabling and aiding the creation of the Israeli state, its air force, and its nuclear arsenal (even aiding and covering up the nukes).&quot;

Mr. Landry we weren&#039;t allies with Israel until after their victory in 1967 and the alliance was rooted in the Cold War.  Their sponsors prior to this were:  The British, Stalin through the Czechs [arms in 47], the French in the 1950s from whom they got the nukes and not the United States and only after 1967 the Americans.  

They won in 1967 with British, French tanks and aircraft Sir. The nuclear tech came from France.     We never even really committed to them until the 1973 War and most of the commitment arrived after the fighting but did allow them to reconstitute their forces.  Also Nixon putting the 80 second strike force on alert kept the USSR from directly intervening on behalf of Egypt.  

We won&#039;t get anywhere with popular myths Mr. Landry.

And in any case Israel has *nothing* to do with Americas core problems of our fellow Americans.   It&#039;s a diversion and payoff for our scumbag political class.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Landry,</p>
<p>&#8220;Instead, America spent the post-WWII decades enabling and aiding the creation of the Israeli state, its air force, and its nuclear arsenal (even aiding and covering up the nukes).&#8221;</p>
<p>Mr. Landry we weren&#8217;t allies with Israel until after their victory in 1967 and the alliance was rooted in the Cold War.  Their sponsors prior to this were:  The British, Stalin through the Czechs [arms in 47], the French in the 1950s from whom they got the nukes and not the United States and only after 1967 the Americans.  </p>
<p>They won in 1967 with British, French tanks and aircraft Sir. The nuclear tech came from France.     We never even really committed to them until the 1973 War and most of the commitment arrived after the fighting but did allow them to reconstitute their forces.  Also Nixon putting the 80 second strike force on alert kept the USSR from directly intervening on behalf of Egypt.  </p>
<p>We won&#8217;t get anywhere with popular myths Mr. Landry.</p>
<p>And in any case Israel has *nothing* to do with Americas core problems of our fellow Americans.   It&#8217;s a diversion and payoff for our scumbag political class.</p>
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		<title>By: vxxc2014</title>
		<link>http://www.socialmatter.net/2015/08/09/the-absurdity-of-americas-devotion-to-israel/#comment-16843</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[vxxc2014]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2015 20:17:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.socialmatter.net/?p=2417#comment-16843</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That was an excellent answer Mr. Y.ilan- open air bombardments and such.  

We really should part and just be friends however, it&#039;s to our mutual benefit.   You can see from the Iran deal that you&#039;re like all our other allies - betrayed even though it&#039;s against our interests. 

Don&#039;t feel bad - look at what our American Rulers have done to America itself.  

As for the point of the article it&#039;s just virtue signalling for most.   Israel and America were strategic partners in the Cold War because of the Cold War.  Like every other such arrangement it should have been ended or modified 25 years ago, that it wasn&#039;t like all the other dangerous relics [NATO] is mostly due to Washington lacking the grace to cede power on anything.  All power will have to be torn from their claws and they won&#039;t go gracefully.   That has nothing to do with Israel and really it&#039;s an American problem.  

PS to the author....now that you&#039;ve scratched the itch and the //pol//chan have come out of the woodwork perhaps you notice how unproductive all this is...

We need to man up to OUR problems and OUR hard work.   All the rest falls in line when that happens, nothing happens without us manning up.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That was an excellent answer Mr. Y.ilan- open air bombardments and such.  </p>
<p>We really should part and just be friends however, it&#8217;s to our mutual benefit.   You can see from the Iran deal that you&#8217;re like all our other allies &#8211; betrayed even though it&#8217;s against our interests. </p>
<p>Don&#8217;t feel bad &#8211; look at what our American Rulers have done to America itself.  </p>
<p>As for the point of the article it&#8217;s just virtue signalling for most.   Israel and America were strategic partners in the Cold War because of the Cold War.  Like every other such arrangement it should have been ended or modified 25 years ago, that it wasn&#8217;t like all the other dangerous relics [NATO] is mostly due to Washington lacking the grace to cede power on anything.  All power will have to be torn from their claws and they won&#8217;t go gracefully.   That has nothing to do with Israel and really it&#8217;s an American problem.  </p>
<p>PS to the author&#8230;.now that you&#8217;ve scratched the itch and the //pol//chan have come out of the woodwork perhaps you notice how unproductive all this is&#8230;</p>
<p>We need to man up to OUR problems and OUR hard work.   All the rest falls in line when that happens, nothing happens without us manning up.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Cook</title>
		<link>http://www.socialmatter.net/2015/08/09/the-absurdity-of-americas-devotion-to-israel/#comment-16828</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nathan Cook]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2015 16:26:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.socialmatter.net/?p=2417#comment-16828</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Why are you talking about mundane facts as if they&#039;re part of some Baudrillardian nonsense-world? The Tamar field has been operational &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.globes.co.il/en/article-tamar-would-remain-profitable-with-lower-gas-prices-1001059674&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;since 2013&lt;/a&gt;. The ink is dry on export agreements with &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/18/israel-egypt-natgas-idUSL6N0WK12X20150318&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Egyptian&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-approves-natural-gas-exports-to-jordan/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Jordanian&lt;/a&gt; companies – naturally, subject to the authorisation of those countries&#039; governments. As to ownership disputes, Lebanon has not claimed either the &lt;a href=&quot;http://imgur.com/taVIJh0&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Leviathan or Tamar fields&lt;/a&gt; since &lt;a href=&quot;https://archive.is/jiuuE&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;2011&lt;/a&gt; – the ongoing dispute concerns as yet undeveloped areas. Nor do the Palestinians have any sensible claim based on Gaza, the fields are way too far north.

I&#039;m not going point by point through the rest, at this juncture, in view of the fact that it&#039;s not very historically literate. Interested parties can check any specific factual claim for themselves. The thrust of your argument appears to be that you don&#039;t like Israel and that you think Jews argue in a po-mo style. I don&#039;t begrudge you your feelings about Israel – they&#039;re your own business – but I&#039;m not the one talking about deconstruction. That, to me, has the whiff of a fully general counterargument: that it doesn&#039;t matter what arguments and facts a Jew brings to bear, as the deep internal logic of those arguments is perverted by his ethnicity. You don&#039;t think that, do you?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why are you talking about mundane facts as if they&#8217;re part of some Baudrillardian nonsense-world? The Tamar field has been operational <a href="http://www.globes.co.il/en/article-tamar-would-remain-profitable-with-lower-gas-prices-1001059674" rel="nofollow">since 2013</a>. The ink is dry on export agreements with <a href="http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/18/israel-egypt-natgas-idUSL6N0WK12X20150318" rel="nofollow">Egyptian</a> and <a href="http://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-approves-natural-gas-exports-to-jordan/" rel="nofollow">Jordanian</a> companies – naturally, subject to the authorisation of those countries&#8217; governments. As to ownership disputes, Lebanon has not claimed either the <a href="http://imgur.com/taVIJh0" rel="nofollow">Leviathan or Tamar fields</a> since <a href="https://archive.is/jiuuE" rel="nofollow">2011</a> – the ongoing dispute concerns as yet undeveloped areas. Nor do the Palestinians have any sensible claim based on Gaza, the fields are way too far north.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not going point by point through the rest, at this juncture, in view of the fact that it&#8217;s not very historically literate. Interested parties can check any specific factual claim for themselves. The thrust of your argument appears to be that you don&#8217;t like Israel and that you think Jews argue in a po-mo style. I don&#8217;t begrudge you your feelings about Israel – they&#8217;re your own business – but I&#8217;m not the one talking about deconstruction. That, to me, has the whiff of a fully general counterargument: that it doesn&#8217;t matter what arguments and facts a Jew brings to bear, as the deep internal logic of those arguments is perverted by his ethnicity. You don&#8217;t think that, do you?</p>
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