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	<title>Comments on: Analyzing Ancapistan</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.socialmatter.net/2015/08/03/analyzing-ancapistan/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.socialmatter.net/2015/08/03/analyzing-ancapistan/</link>
	<description>Not Your Grandfather&#039;s Conservatism</description>
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		<title>By: Mark Citadel</title>
		<link>http://www.socialmatter.net/2015/08/03/analyzing-ancapistan/#comment-16568</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark Citadel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2015 16:23:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.socialmatter.net/?p=2411#comment-16568</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jay, the only reason those are not occurring today is because the United States has beaten and connived its enemies into submission, with many dying deaths of their own making. There are no global forces which truly stand in strong opposition to the United States&#039; dominion over most corners of the globe in both the economic and military spheres.

The same mass murdering psychopathic element still exists today, as it did in the 1700s, as it did in the 1800s, and as it existed indeed in the last century, however it is momentarily quelled by this settling of power that sees the USA unquestionably on top. The infection is not limited to governments, it is present in people at large, but obviously governments can project more power. I agree that the witch hunts against the people listed are in a different class to genocide, but they are byproducts of the same disordered worldview and trending current.

We may see a return to the darkest of its expressions within our lifetimes I fear, but it might be necessary to exit this quagmire once and for all.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jay, the only reason those are not occurring today is because the United States has beaten and connived its enemies into submission, with many dying deaths of their own making. There are no global forces which truly stand in strong opposition to the United States&#8217; dominion over most corners of the globe in both the economic and military spheres.</p>
<p>The same mass murdering psychopathic element still exists today, as it did in the 1700s, as it did in the 1800s, and as it existed indeed in the last century, however it is momentarily quelled by this settling of power that sees the USA unquestionably on top. The infection is not limited to governments, it is present in people at large, but obviously governments can project more power. I agree that the witch hunts against the people listed are in a different class to genocide, but they are byproducts of the same disordered worldview and trending current.</p>
<p>We may see a return to the darkest of its expressions within our lifetimes I fear, but it might be necessary to exit this quagmire once and for all.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Citadel</title>
		<link>http://www.socialmatter.net/2015/08/03/analyzing-ancapistan/#comment-16567</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark Citadel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2015 16:17:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.socialmatter.net/?p=2411#comment-16567</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is incorrect. Governments have only grown at a cancerous rate since the &#039;Enlightenment&#039;. Government prior to this follows a relatively static pattern of size with minimal oscillation usually in response to severe environmental or geopolitical events. Governments in 1300 BC were largely the same size as those in 1300 AD. A check on the size of government is the removal of ideological politicking which must both promise an expanded state to greedy citizens and pursue the building of their desired utopia. When government is  a set of concrete interests rooted in practicality and a theological sense of order, they don&#039;t bother to build departments of education. They are far too busy using their meager (by today&#039;s standards) collection of tax for projects like grand temples and palaces.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is incorrect. Governments have only grown at a cancerous rate since the &#8216;Enlightenment&#8217;. Government prior to this follows a relatively static pattern of size with minimal oscillation usually in response to severe environmental or geopolitical events. Governments in 1300 BC were largely the same size as those in 1300 AD. A check on the size of government is the removal of ideological politicking which must both promise an expanded state to greedy citizens and pursue the building of their desired utopia. When government is  a set of concrete interests rooted in practicality and a theological sense of order, they don&#8217;t bother to build departments of education. They are far too busy using their meager (by today&#8217;s standards) collection of tax for projects like grand temples and palaces.</p>
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		<title>By: Magus Janus</title>
		<link>http://www.socialmatter.net/2015/08/03/analyzing-ancapistan/#comment-16564</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Magus Janus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2015 15:33:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.socialmatter.net/?p=2411#comment-16564</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t think any ancaps suggest people will wake up committed ancaps. They recognize the difficulty of the enterprise.  That said few in 1985 saw a peaceful collapse of Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact and replacement with new regimes, but it happened.  So rapid socio-political change is possible.

I do think the lack of an ancap society anywhere is a strike against it. Having a functional ancap place (with say competing defense/insurance agencies) would be a huge step towards proving the model is workeable. The SU collapse had the Western &quot;capitalist with some social democracy&quot; model to try and copy.  Whereas of right now we don&#039;t really have a working ancap society to model after in case of USG collapse or replacement.

Hence the enthusiasm of some for Patri&#039;s Seasteading or charter cities in third world countries.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think any ancaps suggest people will wake up committed ancaps. They recognize the difficulty of the enterprise.  That said few in 1985 saw a peaceful collapse of Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact and replacement with new regimes, but it happened.  So rapid socio-political change is possible.</p>
<p>I do think the lack of an ancap society anywhere is a strike against it. Having a functional ancap place (with say competing defense/insurance agencies) would be a huge step towards proving the model is workeable. The SU collapse had the Western &#8220;capitalist with some social democracy&#8221; model to try and copy.  Whereas of right now we don&#8217;t really have a working ancap society to model after in case of USG collapse or replacement.</p>
<p>Hence the enthusiasm of some for Patri&#8217;s Seasteading or charter cities in third world countries.</p>
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		<title>By: crha</title>
		<link>http://www.socialmatter.net/2015/08/03/analyzing-ancapistan/#comment-16533</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[crha]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2015 20:16:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.socialmatter.net/?p=2411#comment-16533</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think Spandrell had a better take on libertarianism (including ancap) [here](https://bloodyshovel.wordpress.com/2015/07/27/trade-and-peace/). Without being too sophisticated he identifies one of the problems with libertarianism in general and anarchocapitalism: cooperation is often more costly than coercion or outright violence, esp. when there is no state around.

Of course, libertarians could reply that they prefer a non-state agency to prevent violence (make it costly) and complain about state&#039;s monopoly on aggression (monopolies tend to be less efficient). But state&#039;s monopoly on aggression is analogous to owner&#039;s monopoly to his property. And because libertarians are basically lockeans they see property rights as first while in reality state&#039;s monopoly on aggression must come first because it creates conditions for property rights.

Libertarians are liberals and believe in freedom and equality.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Spandrell had a better take on libertarianism (including ancap) [here](<a href="https://bloodyshovel.wordpress.com/2015/07/27/trade-and-peace/" rel="nofollow">https://bloodyshovel.wordpress.com/2015/07/27/trade-and-peace/</a>). Without being too sophisticated he identifies one of the problems with libertarianism in general and anarchocapitalism: cooperation is often more costly than coercion or outright violence, esp. when there is no state around.</p>
<p>Of course, libertarians could reply that they prefer a non-state agency to prevent violence (make it costly) and complain about state&#8217;s monopoly on aggression (monopolies tend to be less efficient). But state&#8217;s monopoly on aggression is analogous to owner&#8217;s monopoly to his property. And because libertarians are basically lockeans they see property rights as first while in reality state&#8217;s monopoly on aggression must come first because it creates conditions for property rights.</p>
<p>Libertarians are liberals and believe in freedom and equality.</p>
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		<title>By: David Grant</title>
		<link>http://www.socialmatter.net/2015/08/03/analyzing-ancapistan/#comment-16532</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Grant]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2015 19:12:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.socialmatter.net/?p=2411#comment-16532</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks, Nick; I&#039;ll take a look at it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Nick; I&#8217;ll take a look at it.</p>
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		<title>By: freihals</title>
		<link>http://www.socialmatter.net/2015/08/03/analyzing-ancapistan/#comment-16528</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[freihals]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2015 16:48:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.socialmatter.net/?p=2411#comment-16528</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In the tradition of Mr Libertarian, Murray Rothbard, I offer a response here: http://freihals.blogspot.com/2015/08/beyond-known-steps.html .
While I consider this analysis quite lacking, I believe it is worth engaging in what I hope can be a constructive exchange of information and understand in the future. I will not hijack the comment but simply provide a link to my response. Good hunting!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the tradition of Mr Libertarian, Murray Rothbard, I offer a response here: <a href="http://freihals.blogspot.com/2015/08/beyond-known-steps.html" rel="nofollow">http://freihals.blogspot.com/2015/08/beyond-known-steps.html</a> .<br />
While I consider this analysis quite lacking, I believe it is worth engaging in what I hope can be a constructive exchange of information and understand in the future. I will not hijack the comment but simply provide a link to my response. Good hunting!</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Johnson</title>
		<link>http://www.socialmatter.net/2015/08/03/analyzing-ancapistan/#comment-16516</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve Johnson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2015 10:03:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.socialmatter.net/?p=2411#comment-16516</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Modern Western government is founded on the premise that governments derive legitimacy from &quot;the consent of the governed&quot;. As a practical matter this is measured by &lt;i&gt;elections&lt;/i&gt;.

The Cathedral is a spontaneously coordinated effort to take over the mechanism of the state through skipping &quot;getting elected&quot; and replacing it with &quot;get the loyalty of a majority of voters through various means&quot;.

If an anarcho-capitalist state retained &quot;consent of the governed&quot; as its justification it would be vulnerable to the Cathedral - it would just have to develop different means of attack - which it certainly would. There&#039;s too much value in capturing the state for it not to try.

They&#039;d throw sand in the gears of protective agencies and demagogue the results. They&#039;d set up conflicts where their pets could look like the victims of bullying and try to make association with protective agencies that defy them radioactive, etc.

The Cathedral is the result of a structural weakness in the system of government and the long corrosive action of the past work of the Cathedral.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Modern Western government is founded on the premise that governments derive legitimacy from &#8220;the consent of the governed&#8221;. As a practical matter this is measured by <i>elections</i>.</p>
<p>The Cathedral is a spontaneously coordinated effort to take over the mechanism of the state through skipping &#8220;getting elected&#8221; and replacing it with &#8220;get the loyalty of a majority of voters through various means&#8221;.</p>
<p>If an anarcho-capitalist state retained &#8220;consent of the governed&#8221; as its justification it would be vulnerable to the Cathedral &#8211; it would just have to develop different means of attack &#8211; which it certainly would. There&#8217;s too much value in capturing the state for it not to try.</p>
<p>They&#8217;d throw sand in the gears of protective agencies and demagogue the results. They&#8217;d set up conflicts where their pets could look like the victims of bullying and try to make association with protective agencies that defy them radioactive, etc.</p>
<p>The Cathedral is the result of a structural weakness in the system of government and the long corrosive action of the past work of the Cathedral.</p>
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		<title>By: jay</title>
		<link>http://www.socialmatter.net/2015/08/03/analyzing-ancapistan/#comment-16497</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jay]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2015 02:40:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Not dening such incidents. Yet such incidents do not compare to the 100+ millions killed by democide in the 20th century.

And in the 21 century.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not dening such incidents. Yet such incidents do not compare to the 100+ millions killed by democide in the 20th century.</p>
<p>And in the 21 century.</p>
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		<title>By: Augustina</title>
		<link>http://www.socialmatter.net/2015/08/03/analyzing-ancapistan/#comment-16494</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Augustina]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2015 02:07:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.socialmatter.net/?p=2411#comment-16494</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tyranny?   You might want to ask Brendan Eich,  Paula Deen and that dentist who killed the lion about that.  I&#039;m sure they could give you an earful!  And not an agent of the state in sight.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tyranny?   You might want to ask Brendan Eich,  Paula Deen and that dentist who killed the lion about that.  I&#8217;m sure they could give you an earful!  And not an agent of the state in sight.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick B. Steves</title>
		<link>http://www.socialmatter.net/2015/08/03/analyzing-ancapistan/#comment-16493</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nick B. Steves]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2015 02:05:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.socialmatter.net/?p=2411#comment-16493</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In the interests of what I hope is constructive critique, David, Alrenous &lt;a href=&quot;http://alrenous.blogspot.com/2015/08/non-ancap-fails-to-pretend-to-be-ancap.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;strenuously objects&lt;/a&gt; to your characterization of Ancap.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the interests of what I hope is constructive critique, David, Alrenous <a href="http://alrenous.blogspot.com/2015/08/non-ancap-fails-to-pretend-to-be-ancap.html" rel="nofollow">strenuously objects</a> to your characterization of Ancap.</p>
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