Comments on: The Role Of Elites In The Fall Of Rome In Late Antiquity

By: Augustina

Augustina — Mon, 18 May 2015 16:08:33 +0000

Rome was doomed before the Germanic tribes went on the move. The third century crisis tells us that. All ruling classes become degenerate over time. They end up being replaced by a new ruling class one way or the other.

By: NeroDubstep

NeroDubstep — Sun, 17 May 2015 19:38:38 +0000

There is a bait and switche in your comment that isn’t being addressed.

“Another point is the amount of “unknown unknowns” in the Ancient world. The degeneracy of Roman elites could have carried on fine — as it it did for 300 previous years — but how could they know a mass of Huns would ride out from Eurasia, dispersing the Germanics and creating chaos? Today, the intelligence agencies know (to some extent) what a terrorist will do before he even does it–no matter where they are hidden.”

Anything that an intelligence agency knows is, by definition, not an “unknown unknown”. The Unknown unknowns of the modern world are different but just as unpredictable as the example you gave for the ancient world. The may not be as catastrophic or they may be more catastrophic, we don’t know. That’s the point. Unknown unknown.

I would also be wary of calling the United States or America a generic name. For some people it may be but for others maybe not. Will a practicing Muslim-american and a practicing Christian-american consider each other true Americans? Who knows? I know plenty who do not.

By: tiberius7

tiberius7 — Sun, 17 May 2015 02:51:56 +0000

What’s in a name? Rome was the name of the city and generally representative of a specific people. From the beginning of the empire, there was always some tension between true Romans and integrated Romans. That it managed to survive as it did is freakish in itself.

“America/United States” though is a generic name and thus far more adept at assimilating peoples and not creating critical tensions between its various ethnic groups. Apart from maybe the African Americans, virtually all immigrant groups, even now, are quite happy to become American and fight for its Empire.

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Another point is the amount of “unknown unknowns” in the Ancient world. The degeneracy of Roman elites could have carried on fine — as it it did for 300 previous years — but how could they know a mass of Huns would ride out from Eurasia, dispersing the Germanics and creating chaos? Today, the intelligence agencies know (to some extent) what a terrorist will do before he even does it–no matter where they are hidden.

By: Augustina

Augustina — Sat, 16 May 2015 00:39:14 +0000

A familiar pattern takes place in Chinese history. If you want to get an idea of how things went down in such and such a dynasty then do the following: take a ineffective “puppet” emperor, a dowager empress, a favorite concubine, a rejected concubine or two, some scheming eunuchs, a self important Confucian scholar, some Buddhist monks and an ambitious general. Give it all a shake and see what comes out. Some poisonings, some backstabbing (literally), a peasant uprising and bingo, bango, you’ve got a new dynasty.

This is a problem with all ruling classes as time goes on. They become degenerate, decadent and more concerned with court politics than what is going on in the country they supposedly rule, or what threats may be massing on the border. The ruling class lives in a bubble, insulated from reality. Sooner or later, reality bursts the bubble.

It is obviously apparent that our ruling class is now at the same level. Incompetent, insulated, squabbling with rival factions, unaware of the termite eaten foundations upon which their whole little world stands.