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	<title>Comments on: A Practical Workshop On Group Dynamics: Expelling Social Justice Females And Beta Males</title>
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	<link>http://www.socialmatter.net/2014/10/08/practical-workshop-groups-deal-females-beta-males/</link>
	<description>Not Your Grandfather&#039;s Conservatism</description>
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		<title>By: Hadley Bennett</title>
		<link>http://www.socialmatter.net/2014/10/08/practical-workshop-groups-deal-females-beta-males/#comment-4133</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hadley Bennett]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2014 03:01:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.socialmatter.net/?p=702#comment-4133</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yeah, I did see that. Should be discouraged. Men have to shame each other in their own way. Both genders have ways of making their own kind conform to gendered expectations. Males follow the Glanton Way: by calling other males &#039;bitch&#039; or &#039;pussy&#039; when they act overly feminine. Females call each other sluts, which is paradigmatic masculine behavior. It boils down to: &quot;Females, don&#039;t be males,&quot; and &quot;Males, don&#039;t be females.&quot; And so on.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I did see that. Should be discouraged. Men have to shame each other in their own way. Both genders have ways of making their own kind conform to gendered expectations. Males follow the Glanton Way: by calling other males &#8216;bitch&#8217; or &#8216;pussy&#8217; when they act overly feminine. Females call each other sluts, which is paradigmatic masculine behavior. It boils down to: &#8220;Females, don&#8217;t be males,&#8221; and &#8220;Males, don&#8217;t be females.&#8221; And so on.</p>
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		<title>By: Hadley Bennett</title>
		<link>http://www.socialmatter.net/2014/10/08/practical-workshop-groups-deal-females-beta-males/#comment-4132</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hadley Bennett]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2014 02:57:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.socialmatter.net/?p=702#comment-4132</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Appreciate the comment, SSM. Indeed, I think part of the explanation for men-behind-skirts phenomenon is that while these fellows may have assented to the manosphere intellectually, it hasn&#039;t really sunk in on a deep psychological level. So in a sense they have less agency than natural alpha males because they can&#039;t innately overcome the feminine paradigm which has come to dominate the public sphere. This suggests that in more &#039;patriarchal times,&#039; they would&#039;ve been free-riding on the other efforts of top-notch men who established masculine dominance of the public sphere, anyway. And like the good beta males they are, they just followed suit.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Appreciate the comment, SSM. Indeed, I think part of the explanation for men-behind-skirts phenomenon is that while these fellows may have assented to the manosphere intellectually, it hasn&#8217;t really sunk in on a deep psychological level. So in a sense they have less agency than natural alpha males because they can&#8217;t innately overcome the feminine paradigm which has come to dominate the public sphere. This suggests that in more &#8216;patriarchal times,&#8217; they would&#8217;ve been free-riding on the other efforts of top-notch men who established masculine dominance of the public sphere, anyway. And like the good beta males they are, they just followed suit.</p>
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		<title>By: King</title>
		<link>http://www.socialmatter.net/2014/10/08/practical-workshop-groups-deal-females-beta-males/#comment-4120</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[King]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2014 00:10:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.socialmatter.net/?p=702#comment-4120</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;I knew a woman who had a blog that was focused on advising other women how to shed both their acquired feminism and their innate tendency to try to subvert male leadership.&quot;

You mean yourself. Everything you described sounds like your old blog.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I knew a woman who had a blog that was focused on advising other women how to shed both their acquired feminism and their innate tendency to try to subvert male leadership.&#8221;</p>
<p>You mean yourself. Everything you described sounds like your old blog.</p>
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		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://www.socialmatter.net/2014/10/08/practical-workshop-groups-deal-females-beta-males/#comment-4105</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jake]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2014 17:33:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.socialmatter.net/?p=702#comment-4105</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[SSM&#039;s point is good enough to be a supplementary strategy to Hadley&#039;s. Practice what Hadley preaches, AND drive the thumbsuckers to colonize female spaces. Clever readers can certainly think of some ways to bias that choice as part of the expulsion process.

It&#039;s a 3-fer. Preserve internal strength. Create an option of colonizing female spaces that didn&#039;t really exist, because the presence of males does change female spaces. Then give those spaces weaklings who will offer some emotional charge while sapping effectiveness.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SSM&#8217;s point is good enough to be a supplementary strategy to Hadley&#8217;s. Practice what Hadley preaches, AND drive the thumbsuckers to colonize female spaces. Clever readers can certainly think of some ways to bias that choice as part of the expulsion process.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a 3-fer. Preserve internal strength. Create an option of colonizing female spaces that didn&#8217;t really exist, because the presence of males does change female spaces. Then give those spaces weaklings who will offer some emotional charge while sapping effectiveness.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick B. Steves</title>
		<link>http://www.socialmatter.net/2014/10/08/practical-workshop-groups-deal-females-beta-males/#comment-4101</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nick B. Steves]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2014 15:54:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.socialmatter.net/?p=702#comment-4101</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think SSM makes good points, in spite of her lack of Y-chromosome.  A crucial aspect of guarding against malevolent entry is a strong ideal of the type of men (in theory persons) we want this organization to consist of. This is really the thinking behind the reactionary oath. It is not so much focused on an ideological or religious program as it is on what makes a good man, one who is trustworthy, largely independent of race or creed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think SSM makes good points, in spite of her lack of Y-chromosome.  A crucial aspect of guarding against malevolent entry is a strong ideal of the type of men (in theory persons) we want this organization to consist of. This is really the thinking behind the reactionary oath. It is not so much focused on an ideological or religious program as it is on what makes a good man, one who is trustworthy, largely independent of race or creed.</p>
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		<title>By: Sunshine Mary</title>
		<link>http://www.socialmatter.net/2014/10/08/practical-workshop-groups-deal-females-beta-males/#comment-4099</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sunshine Mary]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2014 15:24:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.socialmatter.net/?p=702#comment-4099</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is outstanding! Well-done, sir. But I have one relevant point I&#039;d like to make if women are permitted to comment here. If you&#039;d rather not have females commenting on this essay, I completely understand, and please just delete my comment.

You write:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Men en masse will probably not invade female spaces as a countermeasure. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yes, but there &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; one scenario that ought to be seriously considered by men who are trying to apply the patch you describe. You see, there are certain kinds of men who seem to &lt;i&gt;prefer&lt;/i&gt; to put themselves under women&#039;s leadership or who seem to want to hide behind women&#039;s skirts, and their behavior is demoralizing to other men, who then &lt;i&gt;also&lt;/i&gt; get into the bad habit of looking to women for leadership and passively waiting around for women to tell them what to do and when to do it. 

This is nothing new; consider Deborah and Barak:

4 And the people of Israel again did what was evil in the sight of the Lord after Ehud died. 2 And the Lord sold them into the hand of Jabin king of Canaan, who reigned in Hazor. The commander of his army was Sisera, who lived in Harosheth-hagoyim. 3 Then the people of Israel cried out to the Lord for help, for he had 900 chariots of iron and he oppressed the people of Israel cruelly for twenty years.

4 Now Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lappidoth, was judging Israel at that time. 5 She used to sit under the palm of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in the hill country of Ephraim, and the people of Israel came up to her for judgment. 6 She sent and summoned Barak the son of Abinoam from Kedesh-naphtali and said to him, “Has not the Lord, the God of Israel, commanded you, ‘Go, gather your men at Mount Tabor, taking 10,000 from the people of Naphtali and the people of Zebulun. 7 And I will draw out Sisera, the general of Jabin&#039;s army, to meet you by the river Kishon with his chariots and his troops, and I will give him into your hand’?” 8 &lt;b&gt;Barak said to her, “If you will go with me, I will go, but if you will not go with me, I will not go.” 9 And she said, “I will surely go with you. Nevertheless, the road on which you are going will not lead to your glory, for the Lord will sell Sisera into the hand of a woman.”&lt;/b&gt; Then Deborah arose and went with Barak to Kedesh. 10 And Barak called out Zebulun and Naphtali to Kedesh. And 10,000 men went up at his heels, and Deborah went up with him.

11 Now Heber the Kenite had separated from the Kenites, the descendants of Hobab the father-in-law of Moses, and had pitched his tent as far away as the oak in Zaanannim, which is near Kedesh.

12 When Sisera was told that Barak the son of Abinoam had gone up to Mount Tabor, 13 Sisera called out all his chariots, 900 chariots of iron, and all the men who were with him, from Harosheth-hagoyim to the river Kishon. 14 &lt;b&gt;And Deborah said to Barak, “Up! For this is the day in which the Lord has given Sisera into your hand. Does not the Lord go out before you?” So Barak went down from Mount Tabor with 10,000 men following him. &lt;/b&gt;(Judges 4:1-14)

I have also seen this dynamic in the blogosphere. I knew a woman who had a blog that was focused on advising other women how to shed both their acquired feminism and their innate tendency to try to subvert male leadership.  Quite a few men were pleased with her blog and contributed to the conversation in constructive ways, but after awhile I noticed there were other men who just wanted to sort of hide behind her skirts and suck their thumbs. They ought to have been spending their time more profitably on male blogs, but they didn&#039;t want to be challenged...they just wanted a sympathetic ear to complain into and they wanted to be told that Mommy was going to make everything okay. Their behavior was revolting and demoralizing to normal men, and they continually pulled the conversation off track, back to their crying and complaining, whenever the blog mistress tried to engender supportive conversations among the women about how to be better submissive helpers of men rather than bossy leaders of men.

Such men are destructive, even though as a woman I can&#039;t help but feel sorry for them and want to comfort them, because they prevent women from admonishing and supporting one another AND they demoralize other men. As a woman, I have an EXTREMELY hard time speaking harshly to such men and telling them what they ought to hear - that they ought not to be hiding behind a woman or expecting her to lead them out of this crazy mess of a culture - which is why it is so critical for other men to deliver them a much needed verbal smack upside the head. I suspect these men also serve as entry points for female entryists.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is outstanding! Well-done, sir. But I have one relevant point I&#8217;d like to make if women are permitted to comment here. If you&#8217;d rather not have females commenting on this essay, I completely understand, and please just delete my comment.</p>
<p>You write:</p>
<blockquote><p>Men en masse will probably not invade female spaces as a countermeasure. </p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, but there <i>is</i> one scenario that ought to be seriously considered by men who are trying to apply the patch you describe. You see, there are certain kinds of men who seem to <i>prefer</i> to put themselves under women&#8217;s leadership or who seem to want to hide behind women&#8217;s skirts, and their behavior is demoralizing to other men, who then <i>also</i> get into the bad habit of looking to women for leadership and passively waiting around for women to tell them what to do and when to do it. </p>
<p>This is nothing new; consider Deborah and Barak:</p>
<p>4 And the people of Israel again did what was evil in the sight of the Lord after Ehud died. 2 And the Lord sold them into the hand of Jabin king of Canaan, who reigned in Hazor. The commander of his army was Sisera, who lived in Harosheth-hagoyim. 3 Then the people of Israel cried out to the Lord for help, for he had 900 chariots of iron and he oppressed the people of Israel cruelly for twenty years.</p>
<p>4 Now Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lappidoth, was judging Israel at that time. 5 She used to sit under the palm of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in the hill country of Ephraim, and the people of Israel came up to her for judgment. 6 She sent and summoned Barak the son of Abinoam from Kedesh-naphtali and said to him, “Has not the Lord, the God of Israel, commanded you, ‘Go, gather your men at Mount Tabor, taking 10,000 from the people of Naphtali and the people of Zebulun. 7 And I will draw out Sisera, the general of Jabin&#8217;s army, to meet you by the river Kishon with his chariots and his troops, and I will give him into your hand’?” 8 <b>Barak said to her, “If you will go with me, I will go, but if you will not go with me, I will not go.” 9 And she said, “I will surely go with you. Nevertheless, the road on which you are going will not lead to your glory, for the Lord will sell Sisera into the hand of a woman.”</b> Then Deborah arose and went with Barak to Kedesh. 10 And Barak called out Zebulun and Naphtali to Kedesh. And 10,000 men went up at his heels, and Deborah went up with him.</p>
<p>11 Now Heber the Kenite had separated from the Kenites, the descendants of Hobab the father-in-law of Moses, and had pitched his tent as far away as the oak in Zaanannim, which is near Kedesh.</p>
<p>12 When Sisera was told that Barak the son of Abinoam had gone up to Mount Tabor, 13 Sisera called out all his chariots, 900 chariots of iron, and all the men who were with him, from Harosheth-hagoyim to the river Kishon. 14 <b>And Deborah said to Barak, “Up! For this is the day in which the Lord has given Sisera into your hand. Does not the Lord go out before you?” So Barak went down from Mount Tabor with 10,000 men following him. </b>(Judges 4:1-14)</p>
<p>I have also seen this dynamic in the blogosphere. I knew a woman who had a blog that was focused on advising other women how to shed both their acquired feminism and their innate tendency to try to subvert male leadership.  Quite a few men were pleased with her blog and contributed to the conversation in constructive ways, but after awhile I noticed there were other men who just wanted to sort of hide behind her skirts and suck their thumbs. They ought to have been spending their time more profitably on male blogs, but they didn&#8217;t want to be challenged&#8230;they just wanted a sympathetic ear to complain into and they wanted to be told that Mommy was going to make everything okay. Their behavior was revolting and demoralizing to normal men, and they continually pulled the conversation off track, back to their crying and complaining, whenever the blog mistress tried to engender supportive conversations among the women about how to be better submissive helpers of men rather than bossy leaders of men.</p>
<p>Such men are destructive, even though as a woman I can&#8217;t help but feel sorry for them and want to comfort them, because they prevent women from admonishing and supporting one another AND they demoralize other men. As a woman, I have an EXTREMELY hard time speaking harshly to such men and telling them what they ought to hear &#8211; that they ought not to be hiding behind a woman or expecting her to lead them out of this crazy mess of a culture &#8211; which is why it is so critical for other men to deliver them a much needed verbal smack upside the head. I suspect these men also serve as entry points for female entryists.</p>
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		<title>By: Reader</title>
		<link>http://www.socialmatter.net/2014/10/08/practical-workshop-groups-deal-females-beta-males/#comment-4092</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Reader]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2014 11:25:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.socialmatter.net/?p=702#comment-4092</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I got more new insights out of this one article than I have any other in a long time.  This is a writer to keep an eye on.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I got more new insights out of this one article than I have any other in a long time.  This is a writer to keep an eye on.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Kidnapped by platinum-blonde virgins &#124; vulture of critique</title>
		<link>http://www.socialmatter.net/2014/10/08/practical-workshop-groups-deal-females-beta-males/#comment-4055</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kidnapped by platinum-blonde virgins &#124; vulture of critique]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2014 02:37:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.socialmatter.net/?p=702#comment-4055</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] http://www.socialmatter.net/2014/10/08/practical-workshop-groups-deal-females-beta-males/ [&#8230;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] <a href="http://www.socialmatter.net/2014/10/08/practical-workshop-groups-deal-females-beta-males/" rel="nofollow">http://www.socialmatter.net/2014/10/08/practical-workshop-groups-deal-females-beta-males/</a> [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Yuray</title>
		<link>http://www.socialmatter.net/2014/10/08/practical-workshop-groups-deal-females-beta-males/#comment-4049</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark Yuray]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2014 00:19:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.socialmatter.net/?p=702#comment-4049</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Brilliant.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brilliant.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: A Practical Workshop On Group Dynamics: Expelling Social Justice Females And Beta Males &#124; Reaction Times</title>
		<link>http://www.socialmatter.net/2014/10/08/practical-workshop-groups-deal-females-beta-males/#comment-4037</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[A Practical Workshop On Group Dynamics: Expelling Social Justice Females And Beta Males &#124; Reaction Times]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2014 17:02:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.socialmatter.net/?p=702#comment-4037</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] Source: Social Matter [&#8230;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Source: Social Matter [&#8230;]</p>
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