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	<title>Comments on: The Religion of Atheists</title>
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	<link>http://www.socialmatter.net/2014/06/26/psychology-religion-atheists/</link>
	<description>Not Your Grandfather&#039;s Conservatism</description>
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		<title>By: Henry Dampier</title>
		<link>http://www.socialmatter.net/2014/06/26/psychology-religion-atheists/#comment-782</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Henry Dampier]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2014 18:21:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.socialmatter.net/?p=319#comment-782</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So there is a fair amount of discussion about this in psychology circles: about whether or not psychologists, and therapists in particular, ought to express moral judgments in regards to the behavior of their clients. What will often happen is what you say is happening: the patients are acting in an immoral way that causes them to have the conventional problems of distress. What they can say is something that tends to map to semi-traditional social morality (you will be happier if you have a strong pair bond, receive treatment for your alcoholism, and are less promiscuous), but they are generally not permitted to express it in moral terms even when the &#039;disease&#039; has a moral root.

&quot;that’s so paternalistic, who are we to assume what’s good for you???&quot;

In previous times, (pre-1970s) that was the approach -- the psych/iatrist/ologist was a substitute daddy hired to bring the wayward woman or child back into obedience. All of this is a very recent prosthetic to stem problems that emerged during the very long decay of the traditional family.

Today, there is no father (sometimes literally, certainly legally in the traditional sense even when the father is present), so the psych operates as an agent of the state, and its definition of health and sickness accords to what the state needs from its citizens.

&quot;it is an essentially (and much-needed) conservative message sanctioned by the cathedral, packaged for public consumption, but without an objectionable/sectarian religious justification.&quot;

That would be nice. Unfortunately, there is no unified message, and the incentives point towards further family breakdown and cannibalization. I am very optimistic about alternative political orders, but have zero confidence in the ability of the US as an entity to correct its course.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So there is a fair amount of discussion about this in psychology circles: about whether or not psychologists, and therapists in particular, ought to express moral judgments in regards to the behavior of their clients. What will often happen is what you say is happening: the patients are acting in an immoral way that causes them to have the conventional problems of distress. What they can say is something that tends to map to semi-traditional social morality (you will be happier if you have a strong pair bond, receive treatment for your alcoholism, and are less promiscuous), but they are generally not permitted to express it in moral terms even when the &#8216;disease&#8217; has a moral root.</p>
<p>&#8220;that’s so paternalistic, who are we to assume what’s good for you???&#8221;</p>
<p>In previous times, (pre-1970s) that was the approach &#8212; the psych/iatrist/ologist was a substitute daddy hired to bring the wayward woman or child back into obedience. All of this is a very recent prosthetic to stem problems that emerged during the very long decay of the traditional family.</p>
<p>Today, there is no father (sometimes literally, certainly legally in the traditional sense even when the father is present), so the psych operates as an agent of the state, and its definition of health and sickness accords to what the state needs from its citizens.</p>
<p>&#8220;it is an essentially (and much-needed) conservative message sanctioned by the cathedral, packaged for public consumption, but without an objectionable/sectarian religious justification.&#8221;</p>
<p>That would be nice. Unfortunately, there is no unified message, and the incentives point towards further family breakdown and cannibalization. I am very optimistic about alternative political orders, but have zero confidence in the ability of the US as an entity to correct its course.</p>
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		<title>By: Outside in - Involvements with reality &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Cathedral notes (#1)</title>
		<link>http://www.socialmatter.net/2014/06/26/psychology-religion-atheists/#comment-781</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Outside in - Involvements with reality &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Cathedral notes (#1)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2014 18:05:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.socialmatter.net/?p=319#comment-781</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] (6) The Cathedral is objective, supra-human insanity. [&#8230;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] (6) The Cathedral is objective, supra-human insanity. [&#8230;]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: The Religion of Atheists &#124; Reaction Times</title>
		<link>http://www.socialmatter.net/2014/06/26/psychology-religion-atheists/#comment-775</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Religion of Atheists &#124; Reaction Times]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2014 19:31:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.socialmatter.net/?p=319#comment-775</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] Source: Social Matter [&#8230;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Source: Social Matter [&#8230;]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: cw</title>
		<link>http://www.socialmatter.net/2014/06/26/psychology-religion-atheists/#comment-774</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[cw]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2014 16:13:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.socialmatter.net/?p=319#comment-774</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[to the psychologization of vice/personality defect point: it&#039;s not that it&#039;s inherently pernicious to allow that *some* (a very few) of these rise to the level of disease, it&#039;s that the diagnosis criteria have empty hedonism built right in. 

if you&#039;re experiencing some anxiety, then ok that&#039;s pretty common – but how much? if it &quot;interferes with your normal activities&quot; substantially on a daily basis, then we&#039;ll call that an anxiety disorder, even if your &quot;normal activities&quot; are empty-to-depraved and involve very little which would sustainably gratify any ordinary human being. now you&#039;re suffering from an anxiety disorder, and failures to improve yourself or fulfill your obligations until you&#039;re cured are not your fault. 

psychology thinks this makes diagnoses individualized/context-sensitive, but it is just dat solipsism, and the diagnoses on the margin become self-fulfilling prophesies besides. there&#039;s no reason in theory why the criteria can&#039;t be more objective. e.g. you&#039;re depressed if you&#039;re literally unable to work and/or take care of your family, not if you just can&#039;t get excited about living your trashy &quot;Girls&quot; life anymore. but oh no, that&#039;s so paternalistic, who are we to assume what&#039;s good for you??? 

the related point about the state and its increasing inability to herd hedonistic, solipsistic citizen-cats is why I no longer have much hope for the left libertarian project. the internal tension between &quot;not dictating values/lifestyles&quot; and &quot;promoting individual goods&quot; is just too great. tradeoffs made in light of the latter require or at least imply positions on the former.

I&#039;ve come to believe that positive psychology is our only hope of taming the secular religion. it is Science, and We Fucking Love Science. and, if you listen, even within the academy the positive psychologists are saying: &quot;you&#039;re probably not special. we basically know what makes people happy. it&#039;s friends, family, and security. you personally need to do what you can to achieve these things by e.g. delaying gratification, ignore our advice at your own peril.&quot; it is an essentially (and much-needed) conservative message sanctioned by the cathedral, packaged for public consumption, but without an objectionable/sectarian religious justification.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>to the psychologization of vice/personality defect point: it&#8217;s not that it&#8217;s inherently pernicious to allow that *some* (a very few) of these rise to the level of disease, it&#8217;s that the diagnosis criteria have empty hedonism built right in. </p>
<p>if you&#8217;re experiencing some anxiety, then ok that&#8217;s pretty common – but how much? if it &#8220;interferes with your normal activities&#8221; substantially on a daily basis, then we&#8217;ll call that an anxiety disorder, even if your &#8220;normal activities&#8221; are empty-to-depraved and involve very little which would sustainably gratify any ordinary human being. now you&#8217;re suffering from an anxiety disorder, and failures to improve yourself or fulfill your obligations until you&#8217;re cured are not your fault. </p>
<p>psychology thinks this makes diagnoses individualized/context-sensitive, but it is just dat solipsism, and the diagnoses on the margin become self-fulfilling prophesies besides. there&#8217;s no reason in theory why the criteria can&#8217;t be more objective. e.g. you&#8217;re depressed if you&#8217;re literally unable to work and/or take care of your family, not if you just can&#8217;t get excited about living your trashy &#8220;Girls&#8221; life anymore. but oh no, that&#8217;s so paternalistic, who are we to assume what&#8217;s good for you??? </p>
<p>the related point about the state and its increasing inability to herd hedonistic, solipsistic citizen-cats is why I no longer have much hope for the left libertarian project. the internal tension between &#8220;not dictating values/lifestyles&#8221; and &#8220;promoting individual goods&#8221; is just too great. tradeoffs made in light of the latter require or at least imply positions on the former.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve come to believe that positive psychology is our only hope of taming the secular religion. it is Science, and We Fucking Love Science. and, if you listen, even within the academy the positive psychologists are saying: &#8220;you&#8217;re probably not special. we basically know what makes people happy. it&#8217;s friends, family, and security. you personally need to do what you can to achieve these things by e.g. delaying gratification, ignore our advice at your own peril.&#8221; it is an essentially (and much-needed) conservative message sanctioned by the cathedral, packaged for public consumption, but without an objectionable/sectarian religious justification.</p>
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